Talk:List of homebrew applications/Archive 1

Sub Pages

I was wondering if there was a reason for the homebrew apps to be sub pages as opposed to individual pages. Using sub pages on articles can complicate mediawiki wikis as they generally employ a categorical structure as opposed to a tree structure. It can also cause too many sub pages, IE sub pages of sub pages of sub pages. I propose that future homebrew app article pages be created on their own full article page and instead of using this sub page structure, use only Category:Homebrew_applications along with Homebrew apps. And also, if possible, to move previous homebrew apps to their own article page. --Hiker13526 19:50, 2 May 2008 (PDT)

Really bad idea to remove them, would make the wiki untidy. Besides, for the apps, it is a tree and categorical. And how would it cause subpages of subpages? Muzer 00:52, 5 May 2008 (PDT)

I agree with Hiker here, subpages is not a good idea. I recommend a similar solution as over on meta wiki, that is, create a new namespace for these pages. Looks pretty much the same in the urls, but is less subpages and more a real way of sorting it. (Note: Do not just add pages with a new prefix, the wiki admin must add it in the settings for things to work properly.)--henke37 01:01, 5 May 2008 (PDT)

Subpages do not keep the wiki more tidy, that is what categories are for. A wiki is not a tree structure and was never meant to be. It is linked categorically, like a web. It does cause sub pages of sub pages because I wanted to add subpages to WiiHL for translation ini files but that would be a sub page of a subpage that shouldn't exist. Having a sub page for something like a translation file would be a correct usage of the feature. To have a successful tree structure sub pages of sub pages are needed. Otherwise it isn't a very good tree. But I do not think that is what we should be aiming for. Instead, I believe that having a number of different categories, nav templates, and list pages is a far better method of organization. Wikipedia doesn't even allow sub pages on the main namespace because they know people would abuse it far beyond its intended usage. Subpages are great for the Project namespace or User pages but they have a very small need or want on the main namespace. I recommend we move all the current incorrect uses of sub pages to be in the root of the main namespace. Although something like this has never been decided before on this wiki I feel we should set some precedence for it. Voting, that is. As has worked on many wikis before, a majority vote seems fair unless anyone has good reason otherwise. --Hiker13526 07:51, 5 May 2008 (PDT)

I still think that a proper namespace to organize things is the best solution. It makes it easy to separate normal articles from this radically different content, a catalog of homebrew applications.--henke37 14:24, 5 May 2008 (PDT)

Quoting Meta-Wiki's MediaWiki help: "Namespaces allow, among other things, a separation of content from policy and discussion. They encourage separation of the pages of a wiki into a core set intended for public viewing, and private information intended for the editing community." Homebrew pages are part of the content, therefore, should be in the main namespace. I agree with Hiker13526: remove the subpages, and use categories instead. Felix123 22:07, 5 May 2008 (PDT)

I disagree with you there, you say that they allow to separate content from misc things. This is true, but what you fail to mention is that they don't force it. To reuse my mediawiki example, the extensions is still part of the content, just not the same part as the main pages. I feel that this is the same case, a clear sub part of the content that belongs in a separate namespace. A sub site so to speak.--henke37 15:07, 12 May 2008 (PDT)

We all agree that using subpages is not an optimal solution. Lets solve this sooner rather than later otherwise we will have even more pages to move. Felix123 05:53, 21 May 2008 (PDT)

"Namespaces allow, among other things, a separation of content from policy and discussion." I agree with henke37. Nintend06 01:30, 25 June 2008 (CES

These applications do need to be moved out of subpages to the top level, once this is done the Category:Homebrew_applications page will give a nice overview instead of lumping everything under H. I don't see any benefit to using a namespace in this case when a category separates or helps me discern from the rest which of the pages are apps. MediaWiki is set up so meta data about the content (like discussions) and meta data used to manage the content (like templates) are in separate namespace from the content. Technically there is nothing in the mediawiki engine to enforce that. (Yes the meta data is part of the content, that's part of what makes a wiki a Wiki). CarstenK 07:58, 22 July 2008 (CEST)

I agree. Just look at Wikipedia. They have a huge amount of articles that are all in the article namespace and they are of all sorts of different topics. --Blooper4912 19:59, 8 August 2008 (CEST)

I've made a table of what everything that has discussed here wants. We should try to make a final decision soon and start moving pages. --Blooper4912

Keep as is	Muzer, Initrd.gz
Move to Article namespace	Hiker13526, Felix123, CarstenK, Blooper4912
Move to different namespace	henke37, Nintend06

This was not meant to be vote, as per Wikipedia is not a democracy and Don't vote on everything from Meta. It is a discussion. This table was created to provide an "at a glance" view of the discussion. Since this discussion has been around for a while without any change, I am going to start moving pages into the article namespace. --Blooper4912 17:30, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

These sub pages are so annoying! Whats wrong with having everything on one page? Now it just requires unnecessary clicks to find what you want.--Cert 09:15, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Problem with categories in Homebrew Channel

I cant figure out how to rename the title for the emulators in the wiki file. I always get a file that says apps/snes9x/boot.dol or something like that how do you fix it so it will say Super Nintendo Emulator or something like that does anyone know!!!'

Check here. Next time, use the wiki's built in search (it's that big white bar with the word "Search" above it on your left).-- Ds342 01:21, 18 July 2008 (CEST)

Controls?

The icons used for the Controls aren't a bad idea, but they look kind of silly whey they only have the one direction on them. As discussed on File talk:ButtonUp.png, images that show the entire D-Pad with a direction highlighted like Image:D-Pad BtnUp-arn.png should be used instead. --Phred 05:22, 27 June 2008 (CEST)

Yes,the icons used for the d-pad controls do indeed look silly,and I do agree that showing the entire D-pad would make them look better. What does everyone else think of this? --Ds342

I agree. And remember, Be bold, especially with improvements like these. --Blooper4912 03:02, 3 July 2008 (CEST)

A new category has been created with all the controller buttons. The new D-Pad images are used. Developers should start to use those templates on their apps page. --Crayon 22:10, 4 July 2008 (CEST)

Much better Xyrion 03:27, 9 July 2008 (CEST)

Separate page for Games

The list of media players has a separate page, and there are only 7 media player apps (released). There are 33 games, but they don't have a separate page to list them. The list of games is starting to clutter the Homebrew apps page, and I think the Games section should be given its own page. Nintend06 03:28, 25 July 2008 (CEST)

Opinions?

I agree, it makes sense Chosen One 41 05:55, 25 July 2008 (CEST)

I also agree, but it should still be in a table format, and not like the media player page! JD 11:37, 25 July 2008 (CEST)

Yes, that's a good idea. Maybe also divide the table according to the genre (action, strategy, etc)?Felix 00:09, 26 July 2008 (CEST)

^ Maybe if we get more games, but right now, I think spitting the games from the other stuff would be good, and maybe keep a page of PC Utilities.Initrd.gz 12:33, 08 August 2008 (Central Daylight Time)

We should move all the different categories into seperate pages (like Homebrew apps (games)). That would allow more info to be added to the page about apps in general and links to pages on development. --Blooper4912 19:56, 8 August 2008 (CEST)

That's a good idea, but if we did that then we would have to either move all the pages in that category(like from Homebrew apps/Example Game to Homebrew apps (games)/Example Game) or change the links to be exact(from /Example Game to Homebrew apps/Example Game). I think changing the links would be easier for now, but moving the pages would be better in the long run. --nintend06 16:10, 9 August 2008 (CEST)

We're probably going to be moving the homebrew app articles to the main namespace (or another) soon. --Blooper4912 18:14, 9 August 2008 (CEST)

Well, I took the first step and split the table off into its own page (and I just fixed the links) -- feel free to redo it if you have a better way. Bushing 23:42, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

New page layout!

I have created a completely new page layout. I think it's a lot more organized and easier to navigate. Tell me what you think of it. --Blooper4912 15:04, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh I forgot to add that I need help making descriptions for the links to the lists (like the notible applications) and an overall page description to put above the table of contents. --Blooper4912 15:11, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and added some descriptions to the links to the lists. The new homebrew apps page looks very nice, although I'm not sure if we should have separate categories for things such as the math and joke programs, since there are so few of them.. perhaps a "miscellaneous" category should be created for programs like that? Kilroy 15:37, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... I'm kind of against a miscellaneous applications list. You wouldn't know what it contains just looking at this page. Also, thanks for adding those descriptions. I am going to try and put them into a table to make it look a little better. --Blooper4912 15:46, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I hate the new layout. Now when I want to update my favorite homebrew I have to click all the category links to see their version numbers instead of seeing it all on one page. I also can't ctrl+F to quickly find whatever homebrew I want anymore. Instead I get carpal tunnel syndrome from all the clicking and I die in pain. Well done. Xyrion 01:33, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I liked having all the homebrew on one page. but anyway I placed a small description on each page of the sub-pages that is copied off the new Homebrew applications page.roboprez 06:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I can create another page that has a list of everything. The reasoning behind the separate pages is that it allows more information to be added for each category (like on Media). It also allows the Homebrew apps/Peripheral info to be integrated onto the individual pages and used more. This is not the finished product of the change and I am definitely open to more ideas. --Blooper4912 12:47, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

The big list page would be very useful. Thank you. Xyrion 18:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Done. The List of homebrew applications now contains a list of all apps. --Blooper4912 15:34, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Cool! :) Xyrion 00:12, 26 August 2008 (UTC)