Changes

*Some games do firmware updates. [[User:142.59.172.116|142.59.172.116]] 01:58, 13 February 2008 (PST)

*Some games do firmware updates. [[User:142.59.172.116|142.59.172.116]] 01:58, 13 February 2008 (PST)

: No, they don't.  Games specify their required IOS version in the TMD -- when the system menu detects that a game requires a version of IOS that you don't already have installed, it checks to see if the disc also contains an update partition.  If so, it installs the contents of the update partition before letting you run the game.  Games themselves do not have permission to modify firmware. [[User:Bushing|Bushing]] 05:22, 13 February 2008 (PST)

: No, they don't.  Games specify their required IOS version in the TMD -- when the system menu detects that a game requires a version of IOS that you don't already have installed, it checks to see if the disc also contains an update partition.  If so, it installs the contents of the update partition before letting you run the game.  Games themselves do not have permission to modify firmware. [[User:Bushing|Bushing]] 05:22, 13 February 2008 (PST)

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*I thought there were a lot of different IOS 'versions'. Games that asked me to update were generally only games that also had a lot more in their update partition then just newer IOS versions (a lot of IOS versions and many more update files). Along the same lines isn't the IOS that comes with Zelda (that Zelda uses) very basic allowing only fairly little things (i.e. no USB / Wifi). (signature here :))?

*I thought there were a lot of different IOS 'versions'. Games that asked me to update were generally only games that also had a lot more in their update partition then just newer IOS versions (a lot of IOS versions and many more update files). Along the same lines isn't the IOS that comes with Zelda (that Zelda uses) very basic allowing only fairly little things (i.e. no USB / Wifi). (signature here :))?

: There are.  For example, Super Mario Galaxy comes with IOS versions 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 20, 21, 30, 31, 33, 35, and it requires 35.  (It also comes with a bunch of channels, etc, but that's not relevant -- your observation about large vs small update partitions is just coincidence.)   

: There are.  For example, Super Mario Galaxy comes with IOS versions 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 20, 21, 30, 31, 33, 35, and it requires 35.  (It also comes with a bunch of channels, etc, but that's not relevant -- your observation about large vs small update partitions is just coincidence.)   

: Yes, Zelda uses an old IOS version (15? don't remember).  AFAICT, WiFi support is in all versions of IOS, even if the games don't use it -- the system menu uses it, and it needs to be able to phone home to get system updates.  Likewise, everything supports raw USB, because that's how it communicates with the Bluetooth adapter.  The glaring omission in Zelda's IOS is USB keyboard support -- we'd either need to write our own driver for USB HID (yech) or preferably find an exploit in a newer game, if we want to be able to use the keyboard. [[User:Bushing|Bushing]] 04:53, 14 February 2008 (PST)

: Yes, Zelda uses an old IOS version (15? don't remember).  AFAICT, WiFi support is in all versions of IOS, even if the games don't use it -- the system menu uses it, and it needs to be able to phone home to get system updates.  Likewise, everything supports raw USB, because that's how it communicates with the Bluetooth adapter.  The glaring omission in Zelda's IOS is USB keyboard support -- we'd either need to write our own driver for USB HID (yech) or preferably find an exploit in a newer game, if we want to be able to use the keyboard. [[User:Bushing|Bushing]] 04:53, 14 February 2008 (PST)

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*So basically our injected code running inside the game isn't allowed to touch things like the firmware?

*So basically our injected code running inside the game isn't allowed to touch things like the firmware?

:Refusing to update the firmware serves no purpose unless Nintendo does something to prevent homebrew from running -- it's not clear that that is possible, or worth their time.  That has nothing to do with the second part of your question -- we have "free reign" in the sense that we can do anything a game can do, but we are restricted from modifying the way the system works (patching the system menu, installing new channels, etc.) [[User:Bushing|Bushing]] 04:53, 14 February 2008 (PST)

:Refusing to update the firmware serves no purpose unless Nintendo does something to prevent homebrew from running -- it's not clear that that is possible, or worth their time.  That has nothing to do with the second part of your question -- we have "free reign" in the sense that we can do anything a game can do, but we are restricted from modifying the way the system works (patching the system menu, installing new channels, etc.) [[User:Bushing|Bushing]] 04:53, 14 February 2008 (PST)

Let me know if I understand correctly.  The key that is used to decrypt/encrypt the firmware is unique to each console, and is in the OTP area accessible by starlet only?

*Let me know if I understand correctly.  The key that is used to decrypt/encrypt the firmware is unique to each console, and is in the OTP area accessible by starlet only?

That's too bad.  I was really hoping to see a linux penguin on one of my channel icons some time soon :)

*That's too bad.  I was really hoping to see a linux penguin on one of my channel icons some time soon :)

: Oh, that may very well come. Newer games like WiiFit install channels. We can also assume the system menu's permissions now, using some newly discovered /dev/es calls. We just need to figure out how to make channels :) [[User:Marcan|Marcan]] 08:18, 13 March 2008 (PDT)